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	<title>Comments on: The Mineral-Depleted Food Scandal</title>
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	<link>http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2006/04/mineral-depleted-food-scandal.html</link>
	<description>Experiments and Thoughts on Quackery, Health Beliefs and Pseudoscience</description>
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		<title>By: Julie Ruse</title>
		<link>http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2006/04/mineral-depleted-food-scandal.html#comment-13981</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie Ruse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Dec 2010 20:49:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2006/04/the-mineral-depleted-food-scandal.html#comment-13981</guid>
		<description>I cannot believe you can get away with totally bad-naming one of the most trustworthy knowledgable people I have ever met! David Thomas has been treating his patients for 30 years and the reason he carried out the &#039;Mineral Depletion Report&#039; was because he was concerned about the amount of patients that had signs of different mineral deficiencies. He also was aware of a lot of &#039;modern&#039; diseases, namely ME, ADD, ADHD, Autism and guess what, a lot of these people after being tested were deficient in Magnesioum, Selenium and Zinc (to name a few). David then sourced the best mineral supplement he could find and I can asure you, he is not a &#039;Businessman&#039; with a money making agenda, he wants to make people well. I really think you should meet him and hear what he has to say before you slate a man you don&#039;t even know. I am not even going to tell him about what you have written because you have him &#039;so wrong&#039; it would probably really hurt him! I know how it might seem BUT you couldn&#039;t be more wrong, please consider having a meeting with him and removing this crap from your web-site. It&#039;s not big to make assumptions that are so badly wrong about a man with more integrity than anyone I&#039;ve ever known.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cannot believe you can get away with totally bad-naming one of the most trustworthy knowledgable people I have ever met! David Thomas has been treating his patients for 30 years and the reason he carried out the &#8216;Mineral Depletion Report&#8217; was because he was concerned about the amount of patients that had signs of different mineral deficiencies. He also was aware of a lot of &#8216;modern&#8217; diseases, namely ME, ADD, ADHD, Autism and guess what, a lot of these people after being tested were deficient in Magnesioum, Selenium and Zinc (to name a few). David then sourced the best mineral supplement he could find and I can asure you, he is not a &#8216;Businessman&#8217; with a money making agenda, he wants to make people well. I really think you should meet him and hear what he has to say before you slate a man you don&#8217;t even know. I am not even going to tell him about what you have written because you have him &#8217;so wrong&#8217; it would probably really hurt him! I know how it might seem BUT you couldn&#8217;t be more wrong, please consider having a meeting with him and removing this crap from your web-site. It&#8217;s not big to make assumptions that are so badly wrong about a man with more integrity than anyone I&#8217;ve ever known.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2006/04/mineral-depleted-food-scandal.html#comment-7879</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 14:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2006/04/the-mineral-depleted-food-scandal.html#comment-7879</guid>
		<description>All the studies quoted above investigate whether high doses of vitamins can cure or prevent diseases. &lt;br /&gt;They indicate that high doses of vitamins do not prevent or cure the diseases studied.&lt;br /&gt;Maybe they are harmful.&lt;br /&gt;But these studies tell us absolutely nothing about whether a daily multivitamin will help maintain good health.&lt;br /&gt;And lets face it, that&#039;s not a question which will ever be addressed by a double blind study. (Difficulty selecting endpoints, no-one will fund, etc)&lt;br /&gt;So any opinion on the matter must rather be obtained through logic.&lt;br /&gt;Just ask yourself one question.&lt;br /&gt;How long did Barbara Cartland live?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All the studies quoted above investigate whether high doses of vitamins can cure or prevent diseases. <br />They indicate that high doses of vitamins do not prevent or cure the diseases studied.<br />Maybe they are harmful.<br />But these studies tell us absolutely nothing about whether a daily multivitamin will help maintain good health.<br />And lets face it, that&#8217;s not a question which will ever be addressed by a double blind study. (Difficulty selecting endpoints, no-one will fund, etc)<br />So any opinion on the matter must rather be obtained through logic.<br />Just ask yourself one question.<br />How long did Barbara Cartland live?</p>
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		<title>By: Le Canard Noir</title>
		<link>http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2006/04/mineral-depleted-food-scandal.html#comment-7795</link>
		<dc:creator>Le Canard Noir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 13:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2006/04/the-mineral-depleted-food-scandal.html#comment-7795</guid>
		<description>Anonymous - the &#039;multivit&#039; as an insurance may cause harm if it gives you a false sense of achieving a balanced diet and therefore, you no longer concentrate so much on healthy eating. There is no shortcut here. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Healthy eating is not hard. The vitamin sellers try to make it look hard to you so that you take a &#039;fallback&#039;. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In contrast, many recent large studies have been showing that taking vitamins actually does not achieve the health effects you would expect and indeed may even do you direct harm, e.g.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;Vitamins E and C were ineffective in preventing `cardiovascular disease in men. Sesso HD, Buring JE, Christen WG et al. JAMA, 2008;300 (Physicians’ Health Study II, mong 14,641 male physicians. […] The study participants were randomized to receive 400 IU of vitamin E every other day or a placebo and 500 mg of vitamin C daily or a placebo.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;B Vitamins (B12, B6, folate) May Not Reduce Cardiovascular Events For Coronary Artery Disease Patients Ebbing M, et al, JAMA 2008, Aug 20 — In a large clinical trial involving patients with coronary artery disease, use of B vitamins B6, B12, folate was not effective for preventing death or cardiovascular events. Patients were randomly assigned to one of four groups receiving a daily oral dose of one of the following treatments: folic acid, 0.8mg, plus vitamin B12 , 0.4mg, plus vitamin B6 , 40mg (n= 772); folic acid plus vitamin B12 (n = 772); vitamin B6 alone (n = 772); or placebo (n = 780).The study was stopped early because of concerns among the participants about preliminary results from another similar Norwegian study suggesting no benefits from the treatment and an increased risk of cancer from the B vitamins. Daily supplementation combination that included folic acid and vitamin B6 and B12 had no significant effect on the overall risk of cancer, including breast cancer, among women at high risk of cardiovascular disease. Zhang M et al, JAMA 2008 Nov. 5.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Certain Vitamin Supplements May Increase Lung Cancer Risk, Especially In Smokers. November 11, 2008, from American Thoracic Society. March of the American Thoracic Society’s American Journal of Respiratory and Critical Care Medicine.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Selenium and vitamin E supplements, taken either alone or together, did not prevent prostate cancer; these results came from initial, independent review of study data from the Selenium and Vitamin E Cancer Prevention Trial (SELECT), funded by the National Cancer Institute. (publication  Feb. 1 in the Journal of Clinical Oncology.)&lt;/i&gt;http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=285</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonymous &#8211; the &#8216;multivit&#8217; as an insurance may cause harm if it gives you a false sense of achieving a balanced diet and therefore, you no longer concentrate so much on healthy eating. There is no shortcut here. </p>
<p>Healthy eating is not hard. The vitamin sellers try to make it look hard to you so that you take a &#8216;fallback&#8217;. </p>
<p>In contrast, many recent large studies have been showing that taking vitamins actually does not achieve the health effects you would expect and indeed may even do you direct harm, e.g.</p>
<p><i>Vitamins E and C were ineffective in preventing `cardiovascular disease in men. Sesso HD, Buring JE, Christen WG et al. JAMA, 2008;300 (Physicians’ Health Study II, mong 14,641 male physicians. […] The study participants were randomized to receive 400 IU of vitamin E every other day or a placebo and 500 mg of vitamin C daily or a placebo.</p>
<p>B Vitamins (B12, B6, folate) May Not Reduce Cardiovascular Events For Coronary Artery Disease Patients Ebbing M, et al, JAMA 2008, Aug 20 — In a large clinical trial involving patients with coronary artery disease, use of B vitamins B6, B12, folate was not effective for preventing death or cardiovascular events. Patients were randomly assigned to one of four groups receiving a daily oral dose of one of the following treatments: folic acid, 0.8mg, plus vitamin B12 , 0.4mg, plus vitamin B6 , 40mg (n= 772); folic acid plus vitamin B12 (n = 772); vitamin B6 alone (n = 772); or placebo (n = 780).The study was stopped early because of concerns among the participants about preliminary results from another similar Norwegian study suggesting no benefits from the treatment and an increased risk of cancer from the B vitamins. Daily supplementation combination that included folic acid and vitamin B6 and B12 had no significant effect on the overall risk of cancer, including breast cancer, among women at high risk of cardiovascular disease. Zhang M et al, JAMA 2008 Nov. 5.</p>
<p>Certain Vitamin Supplements May Increase Lung Cancer Risk, Especially In Smokers. November 11, 2008, from American Thoracic Society. March of the American Thoracic Society’s American Journal of Respiratory and Critical Care Medicine.</p>
<p>Selenium and vitamin E supplements, taken either alone or together, did not prevent prostate cancer; these results came from initial, independent review of study data from the Selenium and Vitamin E Cancer Prevention Trial (SELECT), funded by the National Cancer Institute. (publication  Feb. 1 in the Journal of Clinical Oncology.)</i><a href="http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=285" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=285</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2006/04/mineral-depleted-food-scandal.html#comment-7794</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2006/04/the-mineral-depleted-food-scandal.html#comment-7794</guid>
		<description>I love food, especially when it tastes good and I eat it whenever i can.&lt;br /&gt;But heaven only knows whether my diet is balanced.&lt;br /&gt;Frankly I don&#039;t want to be bothered to work it out.&lt;br /&gt;BECAUSE..........&lt;br /&gt;For only £1 (not your neo-puritanical, science-nurd-rabble-rousing £20 mate) I can buy 1 months worth of Sainsbury&#039;s multi-vitamin tablets. &lt;br /&gt;One of those a day and I&#039;ve got all the vits I need.&lt;br /&gt;All day. Every day. Sorted.&lt;br /&gt;What can possibly be wrong with that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love food, especially when it tastes good and I eat it whenever i can.<br />But heaven only knows whether my diet is balanced.<br />Frankly I don&#8217;t want to be bothered to work it out.<br />BECAUSE&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.<br />For only £1 (not your neo-puritanical, science-nurd-rabble-rousing £20 mate) I can buy 1 months worth of Sainsbury&#8217;s multi-vitamin tablets. <br />One of those a day and I&#8217;ve got all the vits I need.<br />All day. Every day. Sorted.<br />What can possibly be wrong with that?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2006/04/mineral-depleted-food-scandal.html#comment-7790</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 21:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2006/04/the-mineral-depleted-food-scandal.html#comment-7790</guid>
		<description>@SnapDragon6: I don&#039;t think anyone is suggesting that people be discouraged from taking supplements where there are medical reasons for them.   But the vast majority of healthy people, who have a reasonably balanced &amp; varied diet, do not need them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@SnapDragon6: I don&#39;t think anyone is suggesting that people be discouraged from taking supplements where there are medical reasons for them.   But the vast majority of healthy people, who have a reasonably balanced &amp; varied diet, do not need them.</p>
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		<title>By: Oli Ward</title>
		<link>http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2006/04/mineral-depleted-food-scandal.html#comment-7783</link>
		<dc:creator>Oli Ward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 13:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2006/04/the-mineral-depleted-food-scandal.html#comment-7783</guid>
		<description>SnapDragon6:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I find your misinterpretation of the points made, and your overreaction very disturbing.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It seems to me that at no point is this post saying that vitamin and mineral supplements aren&#039;t necessary, for some people - yourself being a perfect example - who have deficiencies and health problems caused by them. It is saying that the impartiality of this report should certainly be questioned, especially given the conflict of interest, which we can assume was not stated. And seeing as there are scant details of what research was done, and what steps were made to take into account the failings that LCN pointed out. Those being;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1) declining to mention whether a well balanced diet could supply peoples needed nutrients (if indeed the nutrient levels of the food stuffs has dropped). Therefore resorting to supplements may not be necessary.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2) not taking into account changes in sensitivity and accuracy of analytical chemistry between the two periods that measurements were taken. Therefore the nutrient value may not have dropped at all, or may have have dropped only an insignificant amount.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;3) failing to show that any of the 8% of mineral deficient women were made up of those being so due to an alleged reduction in the nutrient value of the food stuffs. Therefore any drop in the nutrient value of food may have little bearing on the health problems of todays population.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Ultimately it is misleading as the vast majority of people would benefit far more, both in the health and their wallets, by consuming a well balanced diet, instead of buying largely unnecessary (as shown by a large number of high quality studies) supplements.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SnapDragon6:</p>
<p>I find your misinterpretation of the points made, and your overreaction very disturbing.</p>
<p>It seems to me that at no point is this post saying that vitamin and mineral supplements aren&#8217;t necessary, for some people &#8211; yourself being a perfect example &#8211; who have deficiencies and health problems caused by them. It is saying that the impartiality of this report should certainly be questioned, especially given the conflict of interest, which we can assume was not stated. And seeing as there are scant details of what research was done, and what steps were made to take into account the failings that LCN pointed out. Those being;</p>
<p>1) declining to mention whether a well balanced diet could supply peoples needed nutrients (if indeed the nutrient levels of the food stuffs has dropped). Therefore resorting to supplements may not be necessary.</p>
<p>2) not taking into account changes in sensitivity and accuracy of analytical chemistry between the two periods that measurements were taken. Therefore the nutrient value may not have dropped at all, or may have have dropped only an insignificant amount.</p>
<p>3) failing to show that any of the 8% of mineral deficient women were made up of those being so due to an alleged reduction in the nutrient value of the food stuffs. Therefore any drop in the nutrient value of food may have little bearing on the health problems of todays population.</p>
<p>Ultimately it is misleading as the vast majority of people would benefit far more, both in the health and their wallets, by consuming a well balanced diet, instead of buying largely unnecessary (as shown by a large number of high quality studies) supplements.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2006/04/mineral-depleted-food-scandal.html#comment-7782</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 10:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2006/04/the-mineral-depleted-food-scandal.html#comment-7782</guid>
		<description>I wasn&#039;t to impressed by the Food Commission picking on Chris Hoy as one of the bad guys pushing junk food because  he was promoting &quot;high sugar&quot; Kellogs branflakes. Now if I&#039;m to believe Kellogs and that the average portion is 30gm, then that&#039;s about 7gm of sugar (versus the 24 gm of sugars you&#039;d find in a typical 200ml glass of orange juice). Even if 30gm is a bit small, then it&#039;s hardly going to kill you unless you try and live on a diet made up largely of dry bran flakes. Tape a carton of UHT semi-skimmed milk to the cereal carton in the appropriate portions and the resultant meal drops from the FSA red sugar into the green category, even with the added lactose.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Of course this all comes about as the FSA insist on red-flagging foods solely on the basis of the percentage of a given substance rather than the amount you consume in reasonable portions (they do put the absolute amount per portion on their coloured wheel-of-death, but next to the traffic light colour there&#039;s not much clue as to whether the total amount is significant).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Of course the GDA system (which I greatly prefer) has its problems too, but that&#039;s largely because there is simply no way that a few square centimetres of packet space can convey the complex issues of a healthy diet. Simpistic colour coding is no substitute for people being aware of how to plan a reasonably healthy diet (it&#039;s a truism that there are no unhealthy foods, just unhealthy diets).&lt;br /&gt;It&#039;s also not helped by all the spurious certainty claimed by a lot of the food lobby. The oft quoted stuff about the portions of fruit/vegetable, the units of alcohol and the like are subject to a huge range of uncertainties and variations in individuals.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Food Commission also appears to invite other groups with agendas to publish articles on their subscription magazine. As an example, authors from the Soil Association who have a habit of mixing up some sensible ideas with a lot of unsupported, messianic stuff more in common with a faith organisation. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;From the little I can read on the Food Commission site, then I think this is just yet another self-serving pressure organisation that doesn&#039;t care too much for rigour and the essential uncertainties and has a liking for headlines to capture public interest. After all, they, like anybody else have a living to make and they appear to be funded from subscriptions to their magazine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wasn&#8217;t to impressed by the Food Commission picking on Chris Hoy as one of the bad guys pushing junk food because  he was promoting &#8220;high sugar&#8221; Kellogs branflakes. Now if I&#8217;m to believe Kellogs and that the average portion is 30gm, then that&#8217;s about 7gm of sugar (versus the 24 gm of sugars you&#8217;d find in a typical 200ml glass of orange juice). Even if 30gm is a bit small, then it&#8217;s hardly going to kill you unless you try and live on a diet made up largely of dry bran flakes. Tape a carton of UHT semi-skimmed milk to the cereal carton in the appropriate portions and the resultant meal drops from the FSA red sugar into the green category, even with the added lactose.</p>
<p>Of course this all comes about as the FSA insist on red-flagging foods solely on the basis of the percentage of a given substance rather than the amount you consume in reasonable portions (they do put the absolute amount per portion on their coloured wheel-of-death, but next to the traffic light colour there&#8217;s not much clue as to whether the total amount is significant).</p>
<p>Of course the GDA system (which I greatly prefer) has its problems too, but that&#8217;s largely because there is simply no way that a few square centimetres of packet space can convey the complex issues of a healthy diet. Simpistic colour coding is no substitute for people being aware of how to plan a reasonably healthy diet (it&#8217;s a truism that there are no unhealthy foods, just unhealthy diets).<br />It&#8217;s also not helped by all the spurious certainty claimed by a lot of the food lobby. The oft quoted stuff about the portions of fruit/vegetable, the units of alcohol and the like are subject to a huge range of uncertainties and variations in individuals.</p>
<p>The Food Commission also appears to invite other groups with agendas to publish articles on their subscription magazine. As an example, authors from the Soil Association who have a habit of mixing up some sensible ideas with a lot of unsupported, messianic stuff more in common with a faith organisation. </p>
<p>From the little I can read on the Food Commission site, then I think this is just yet another self-serving pressure organisation that doesn&#8217;t care too much for rigour and the essential uncertainties and has a liking for headlines to capture public interest. After all, they, like anybody else have a living to make and they appear to be funded from subscriptions to their magazine.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2006/04/mineral-depleted-food-scandal.html#comment-7779</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 09:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2006/04/the-mineral-depleted-food-scandal.html#comment-7779</guid>
		<description>Fantastic! The last paragraph is inspired ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fantastic! The last paragraph is inspired <img src='http://www.quackometer.net/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: SnapDragon6</title>
		<link>http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2006/04/mineral-depleted-food-scandal.html#comment-6667</link>
		<dc:creator>SnapDragon6</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 16:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2006/04/the-mineral-depleted-food-scandal.html#comment-6667</guid>
		<description>I find your attack on mineral/food supplements very disturbing. I have mitochondrial failure and my G.P cannot prescribe me the coenzymes or minerals that I require to keep me functioning on a daily basis.Hence I have to take supplements - as they provide the coenzymes in the right concentrations, which I cannot metabolize in sufficient quantity  from the food that I eat. What would you suggest I do otherwise?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find your attack on mineral/food supplements very disturbing. I have mitochondrial failure and my G.P cannot prescribe me the coenzymes or minerals that I require to keep me functioning on a daily basis.Hence I have to take supplements &#8211; as they provide the coenzymes in the right concentrations, which I cannot metabolize in sufficient quantity  from the food that I eat. What would you suggest I do otherwise?</p>
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		<title>By: Scumop</title>
		<link>http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2006/04/mineral-depleted-food-scandal.html#comment-4720</link>
		<dc:creator>Scumop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Sep 2006 03:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2006/04/the-mineral-depleted-food-scandal.html#comment-4720</guid>
		<description>At first it&#039;s ho-hum, yet another story on bogus research (pseudoscience being beyond epidemic proportions these days). Then the punch line hits - a supplement selling chiropractor came up with it. Made me laugh. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Nice work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At first it&#8217;s ho-hum, yet another story on bogus research (pseudoscience being beyond epidemic proportions these days). Then the punch line hits &#8211; a supplement selling chiropractor came up with it. Made me laugh. </p>
<p>Nice work.</p>
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