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	<title>Comments on: Charles Darwin and Homeopathy</title>
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	<link>http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2007/08/charles-darwin-and-homeopathy.html</link>
	<description>Experiments and Thoughts on Quackery, Health Beliefs and Pseudoscience</description>
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		<title>By: PatrickEB</title>
		<link>http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2007/08/charles-darwin-and-homeopathy.html#comment-16606</link>
		<dc:creator>PatrickEB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2011 02:02:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2007/08/charles-darwin-and-homeopathy.html#comment-16606</guid>
		<description>What a load of crap!

The man who overturned the entire world view of how we came about and you call him &#039;an establishment clone&#039;? That&#039;s like saying Winston Churchill was a secret communist or sympathiser with Fascism.

Furthermore, whatever you &#039;believe&#039; is besides the point. The facts are different:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005140.html

It has gone up nearly six. However, this does not take into account the deaths in childhood and the early years which have been reduced significantly. Modern medicine, science and engineering as well as education have improved early life expectancy enormously.

Additionally you completely ignore that the life expectancy following disease and illness has been immeasurably increased.

Any scientific or medical advance has a difficult birth, but the ability to replicate, reproduce and massively recreate the effects has eased it along the road to acceptance.

As Tim Minchin says &quot;What do you call alternative medicine that works? Medicine!&quot;

When there are multiple example of independent research to the same extent as there is with &#039;real&#039; medicine and science, then homeopathy will quite easily be able to show it &#039;just works&#039;. You&#039;ll find that the great majority of people are easily convinced by proof. 

Only a small number require little.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a load of crap!</p>
<p>The man who overturned the entire world view of how we came about and you call him &#8216;an establishment clone&#8217;? That&#8217;s like saying Winston Churchill was a secret communist or sympathiser with Fascism.</p>
<p>Furthermore, whatever you &#8216;believe&#8217; is besides the point. The facts are different:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005140.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005140.html</a></p>
<p>It has gone up nearly six. However, this does not take into account the deaths in childhood and the early years which have been reduced significantly. Modern medicine, science and engineering as well as education have improved early life expectancy enormously.</p>
<p>Additionally you completely ignore that the life expectancy following disease and illness has been immeasurably increased.</p>
<p>Any scientific or medical advance has a difficult birth, but the ability to replicate, reproduce and massively recreate the effects has eased it along the road to acceptance.</p>
<p>As Tim Minchin says &#8220;What do you call alternative medicine that works? Medicine!&#8221;</p>
<p>When there are multiple example of independent research to the same extent as there is with &#8216;real&#8217; medicine and science, then homeopathy will quite easily be able to show it &#8216;just works&#8217;. You&#8217;ll find that the great majority of people are easily convinced by proof. </p>
<p>Only a small number require little.</p>
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		<title>By: PatrickEB</title>
		<link>http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2007/08/charles-darwin-and-homeopathy.html#comment-16605</link>
		<dc:creator>PatrickEB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2011 01:36:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2007/08/charles-darwin-and-homeopathy.html#comment-16605</guid>
		<description>My previous comment appears to have disappeared before I edited it. Damn! However, I&#039;ll try again as a sense of balance is required in this debate.

To Dana Ullman,

I can completely concur.

My children were sick (vomiting etc) and I watched them, gave them fluids and miraculously they were cured.  They&#039;re too young to understand homeopathy and so it had nothing to do with a self-fulfilling prophesy.

I was amazed that plain household water had cured them, along with watching them (which was obviously important too). Then I realised something: the Sydney water supply comes from the dams. Dam water from rain. Rain from evaporation in the ocean and the ocean water...from the water we flush into the ocean from our houses.

Obviously, the more you dilute something the greater its potency. Thus, all the homeopathic treatments that had been flushed down the toilets around Australia had become more potent after going through the water cycle and then out of my household taps.

I&#039;m astounded that this works so well and is free. Amazing. Truly amazing.

Naturally I told me friends and they&#039;ve found the same thing. They also watched their children and I&#039;m convinced by this evidence, that watching children has the capacity for increasing the effect.

Please take note of my research (I have a post-graduate research degree, by the way, as does my wife - she has two) and so my research is obviously well supported and thus a natural adjunct to your own work.

I require only a small regular payment and acknowledgement of my efforts.

Yours sincerely,

Patrick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My previous comment appears to have disappeared before I edited it. Damn! However, I&#8217;ll try again as a sense of balance is required in this debate.</p>
<p>To Dana Ullman,</p>
<p>I can completely concur.</p>
<p>My children were sick (vomiting etc) and I watched them, gave them fluids and miraculously they were cured.  They&#8217;re too young to understand homeopathy and so it had nothing to do with a self-fulfilling prophesy.</p>
<p>I was amazed that plain household water had cured them, along with watching them (which was obviously important too). Then I realised something: the Sydney water supply comes from the dams. Dam water from rain. Rain from evaporation in the ocean and the ocean water&#8230;from the water we flush into the ocean from our houses.</p>
<p>Obviously, the more you dilute something the greater its potency. Thus, all the homeopathic treatments that had been flushed down the toilets around Australia had become more potent after going through the water cycle and then out of my household taps.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m astounded that this works so well and is free. Amazing. Truly amazing.</p>
<p>Naturally I told me friends and they&#8217;ve found the same thing. They also watched their children and I&#8217;m convinced by this evidence, that watching children has the capacity for increasing the effect.</p>
<p>Please take note of my research (I have a post-graduate research degree, by the way, as does my wife &#8211; she has two) and so my research is obviously well supported and thus a natural adjunct to your own work.</p>
<p>I require only a small regular payment and acknowledgement of my efforts.</p>
<p>Yours sincerely,</p>
<p>Patrick</p>
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		<title>By: PatrickEB</title>
		<link>http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2007/08/charles-darwin-and-homeopathy.html#comment-16604</link>
		<dc:creator>PatrickEB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2011 01:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2007/08/charles-darwin-and-homeopathy.html#comment-16604</guid>
		<description>I can completely concur.

My children were sick (vomiting etc) and I watched them, gave them fluids and miraculously they were cured.  They&#039;re too young to understand homeopathy and so it had nothing to do with a self-fulfilling prophesy.

I was amazed that plain household water had cured them, along with watching them (which was obviously important too). Then I realised something: the Sydney water supply comes from the damns. Damn water from rain. Rain from evaporation in the ocean and the ocean water...from the water we flush into the ocean from our houses.

Obviously, the more you dilute something the greater its potency. Thus, all the homeopathic treatements that had been flushed down the toilets around Australia had become more potent after going through the water cycle and then out of my household taps.

I&#039;m astounded that this works so well and is free. Amazing. Truly amazing.

Naturally I told me friends and they&#039;ve found the same thing. They also watched their children and I&#039;m convinced by this evidence, that watching children has the capacity for increasing the effect.

Please take note of my research (I have a post-graduate research degree, by the way, as does my wife - she has two) and so my research is obviously well supported and thus a natural adjunct to your own work.

I require only a small regular payment and acknowledgement of my efforts.

Yours sincerely,

Patrick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can completely concur.</p>
<p>My children were sick (vomiting etc) and I watched them, gave them fluids and miraculously they were cured.  They&#8217;re too young to understand homeopathy and so it had nothing to do with a self-fulfilling prophesy.</p>
<p>I was amazed that plain household water had cured them, along with watching them (which was obviously important too). Then I realised something: the Sydney water supply comes from the damns. Damn water from rain. Rain from evaporation in the ocean and the ocean water&#8230;from the water we flush into the ocean from our houses.</p>
<p>Obviously, the more you dilute something the greater its potency. Thus, all the homeopathic treatements that had been flushed down the toilets around Australia had become more potent after going through the water cycle and then out of my household taps.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m astounded that this works so well and is free. Amazing. Truly amazing.</p>
<p>Naturally I told me friends and they&#8217;ve found the same thing. They also watched their children and I&#8217;m convinced by this evidence, that watching children has the capacity for increasing the effect.</p>
<p>Please take note of my research (I have a post-graduate research degree, by the way, as does my wife &#8211; she has two) and so my research is obviously well supported and thus a natural adjunct to your own work.</p>
<p>I require only a small regular payment and acknowledgement of my efforts.</p>
<p>Yours sincerely,</p>
<p>Patrick</p>
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		<title>By: Skeptikai</title>
		<link>http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2007/08/charles-darwin-and-homeopathy.html#comment-16601</link>
		<dc:creator>Skeptikai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Dec 2011 15:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2007/08/charles-darwin-and-homeopathy.html#comment-16601</guid>
		<description>Excellent post!! I think I might have to write about this.
And thanks for the reference in the comments you made about the one who used the same quotes as you but got a totally different result. Indeed it&#039;s interesting to see the differences in how we perceive the information we find. Luckily, the lowest common denominator is evidence and reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post!! I think I might have to write about this.<br />
And thanks for the reference in the comments you made about the one who used the same quotes as you but got a totally different result. Indeed it&#8217;s interesting to see the differences in how we perceive the information we find. Luckily, the lowest common denominator is evidence and reason.</p>
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		<title>By: patrick graham (@smileoftdecade)</title>
		<link>http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2007/08/charles-darwin-and-homeopathy.html#comment-16595</link>
		<dc:creator>patrick graham (@smileoftdecade)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Dec 2011 10:54:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2007/08/charles-darwin-and-homeopathy.html#comment-16595</guid>
		<description>sceptical I remain - but note the alternate tones of those who seek to either exaggerate or decry the issues of what science has to say with regard to the properties of water..

One point - as far as I am aware the &#039;succussing&#039; (vigourous shaking, or &quot;energising&quot;) aspect of &quot;dilution&quot; is seen as critical to how strength is supposedly increased by every increase in such dilutions,  by homeopaths - yet it never seems to enter in these long running face-offs.. why? 

the research on the memory and other surprising aspects of water do not necessarily support those who argue for Homeopathy - but they do contradict what the cynical anti-quackery people tend to say they &quot;know&quot; because they have read all the scientific research ever done.

Recently, when the Cerne experiments suggested that Neutrinos may have defied C and place Einstein&#039;s general theory in doubt - we had some then who merely dismissed it as &quot;impossible&quot; - but the genuine scientists remained sceptical - not aggressively cynical.

There are stranger things going on in the quantum / nanotechnology field than this &quot;certainty of science&quot; can hope to explain - so knocking quacks is one thing, (and let&#039;s not forget to knock those quacks in the Pharmaceutical industry as well)  dismissing them on the basis of &quot;my knowledge of science proves this negative&quot; is quite another...

Darwin&#039;s backing for one angle or another is a rather sad appeal to authority - genius insight he may have had, authority on science of the 21st century he was not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sceptical I remain &#8211; but note the alternate tones of those who seek to either exaggerate or decry the issues of what science has to say with regard to the properties of water..</p>
<p>One point &#8211; as far as I am aware the &#8217;succussing&#8217; (vigourous shaking, or &#8220;energising&#8221;) aspect of &#8220;dilution&#8221; is seen as critical to how strength is supposedly increased by every increase in such dilutions,  by homeopaths &#8211; yet it never seems to enter in these long running face-offs.. why? </p>
<p>the research on the memory and other surprising aspects of water do not necessarily support those who argue for Homeopathy &#8211; but they do contradict what the cynical anti-quackery people tend to say they &#8220;know&#8221; because they have read all the scientific research ever done.</p>
<p>Recently, when the Cerne experiments suggested that Neutrinos may have defied C and place Einstein&#8217;s general theory in doubt &#8211; we had some then who merely dismissed it as &#8220;impossible&#8221; &#8211; but the genuine scientists remained sceptical &#8211; not aggressively cynical.</p>
<p>There are stranger things going on in the quantum / nanotechnology field than this &#8220;certainty of science&#8221; can hope to explain &#8211; so knocking quacks is one thing, (and let&#8217;s not forget to knock those quacks in the Pharmaceutical industry as well)  dismissing them on the basis of &#8220;my knowledge of science proves this negative&#8221; is quite another&#8230;</p>
<p>Darwin&#8217;s backing for one angle or another is a rather sad appeal to authority &#8211; genius insight he may have had, authority on science of the 21st century he was not.</p>
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		<title>By: Le Canard Blanc</title>
		<link>http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2007/08/charles-darwin-and-homeopathy.html#comment-15177</link>
		<dc:creator>Le Canard Blanc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jul 2011 20:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2007/08/charles-darwin-and-homeopathy.html#comment-15177</guid>
		<description>We cannot and do not claim to cure any diseases as we treat people not diseases.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We cannot and do not claim to cure any diseases as we treat people not diseases.</p>
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		<title>By: Le Canard Blanc</title>
		<link>http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2007/08/charles-darwin-and-homeopathy.html#comment-15175</link>
		<dc:creator>Le Canard Blanc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jul 2011 20:18:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2007/08/charles-darwin-and-homeopathy.html#comment-15175</guid>
		<description>Well done Dana, sock it to them. The denialists will never admit they could be wrong so best thing is just to ignore them and carry on doing great work. The good thing from all the anti homeopathy stuff is people are asking &quot;what is this homeopathy they are all talking about?&quot; I have never seen so much interest in homeopathy as in recent years and have never been so busy in my clinic. I note that the work Darwin was experienting with on plants is now being done by a dutch homeopath. I guess the denialist will say that is all placebo too...lol.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well done Dana, sock it to them. The denialists will never admit they could be wrong so best thing is just to ignore them and carry on doing great work. The good thing from all the anti homeopathy stuff is people are asking &#8220;what is this homeopathy they are all talking about?&#8221; I have never seen so much interest in homeopathy as in recent years and have never been so busy in my clinic. I note that the work Darwin was experienting with on plants is now being done by a dutch homeopath. I guess the denialist will say that is all placebo too&#8230;lol.</p>
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		<title>By: Why I am Nominating Luc Montagnier for an IgNobel Prize &#124; The Quackometer</title>
		<link>http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2007/08/charles-darwin-and-homeopathy.html#comment-14623</link>
		<dc:creator>Why I am Nominating Luc Montagnier for an IgNobel Prize &#124; The Quackometer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Apr 2011 10:34:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2007/08/charles-darwin-and-homeopathy.html#comment-14623</guid>
		<description>[...] My old friend Dana Ullman, whose academic thoroughness I took apart when he declared homeopathy had saved Charles Darwin, is jumping for joy over Montagnier’s research. He is not the most self critical thinker around. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] My old friend Dana Ullman, whose academic thoroughness I took apart when he declared homeopathy had saved Charles Darwin, is jumping for joy over Montagnier’s research. He is not the most self critical thinker around. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Curious Case of Oxford University Press, Homeopathy and Charles Darwin &#124; The Quackometer</title>
		<link>http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2007/08/charles-darwin-and-homeopathy.html#comment-12658</link>
		<dc:creator>The Curious Case of Oxford University Press, Homeopathy and Charles Darwin &#124; The Quackometer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Oct 2010 13:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2007/08/charles-darwin-and-homeopathy.html#comment-12658</guid>
		<description>[...] Charles Darwin and Homeopathy 67 comment(s) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Charles Darwin and Homeopathy 67 comment(s) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mojo</title>
		<link>http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2007/08/charles-darwin-and-homeopathy.html#comment-9362</link>
		<dc:creator>Mojo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 09:58:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2007/08/charles-darwin-and-homeopathy.html#comment-9362</guid>
		<description>&#039;Anonymous&#039; seems to have taken note of your comment: after &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/jan/31/homeopathic-remedies-nhs?showallcomments=true#CommentKey:81a2ec8d-8028-466e-a980-1a35250cde06&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;making the same claim&lt;/a&gt; on the &lt;i&gt;Guardian&lt;/i&gt; website, they &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/jan/31/homeopathic-remedies-nhs?showallcomments=true#CommentKey:e880791d-9427-4562-a59b-39db6d460f73&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;modified their claim&lt;/a&gt; to include 12C remedies.  Of course, that result would contradict Darwin&#039;s account of the experiments - he found that there was a level below which Drosera did not react.  In fact, I suspect that the original 6C claim might contradict Darwin&#039;s account: a homeopath&#039;s website they later cited claims that the dilutions Darwin used were &quot;equivalent to a 7th homeopathic decimal dilution&quot;.  Note, &quot;decimal&quot; and not &quot;centesimal&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#39;Anonymous&#39; seems to have taken note of your comment: after <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/jan/31/homeopathic-remedies-nhs?showallcomments=true#CommentKey:81a2ec8d-8028-466e-a980-1a35250cde06" rel="nofollow">making the same claim</a> on the <i>Guardian</i> website, they <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/jan/31/homeopathic-remedies-nhs?showallcomments=true#CommentKey:e880791d-9427-4562-a59b-39db6d460f73" rel="nofollow">modified their claim</a> to include 12C remedies.  Of course, that result would contradict Darwin&#39;s account of the experiments &#8211; he found that there was a level below which Drosera did not react.  In fact, I suspect that the original 6C claim might contradict Darwin&#39;s account: a homeopath&#39;s website they later cited claims that the dilutions Darwin used were &quot;equivalent to a 7th homeopathic decimal dilution&quot;.  Note, &quot;decimal&quot; and not &quot;centesimal&quot;.</p>
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