Comments on: A Carnival of Bogus* Chiropractic http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/05/carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html Experiments and Thoughts on Quackery, Health Beliefs and Pseudoscience Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:52:56 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Nick http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/05/carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-11640 Nick Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:44:23 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/05/a-carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-11640 I for one have suffered from constant migraines and neck aches since I was a child. The only method of relief the doctor provided was through painkillers which eventually started causing problems of their own. I started seeing a Chiropractor a few years back and even after my first adjustment I noticed instant relief. I now go only a couple of times every few months, my neck is fine, my posture is 300% better, I no longer suffer from migraines, my jaw no longer aches and gurns constantly. I have also referred my brother after a freak "crack" of his spine whilst doing some mundane taske left him in crippling pain and unable to stand properly, one adjustment and he was right as rain again. I was also referred originally by someone else who also swore by them (a member of my family) and had been recieving care on and off for a number of years, when need be. Mine certainly doesn't claim to perform miracles and I am glad I went, I both trust my Chiropractor and highly recommend him to anyone else with spinal issues. Just for reference I am a professional software engineer with a strong grasp of logic and reasoning, therefore I also know that somethings are best experienced first hand than via proxy. I for one have suffered from constant migraines and neck aches since I was a child. The only method of relief the doctor provided was through painkillers which eventually started causing problems of their own.

I started seeing a Chiropractor a few years back and even after my first adjustment I noticed instant relief. I now go only a couple of times every few months, my neck is fine, my posture is 300% better, I no longer suffer from migraines, my jaw no longer aches and gurns constantly.

I have also referred my brother after a freak “crack” of his spine whilst doing some mundane taske left him in crippling pain and unable to stand properly, one adjustment and he was right as rain again. I was also referred originally by someone else who also swore by them (a member of my family) and had been recieving care on and off for a number of years, when need be.

Mine certainly doesn’t claim to perform miracles and I am glad I went, I both trust my Chiropractor and highly recommend him to anyone else with spinal issues.

Just for reference I am a professional software engineer with a strong grasp of logic and reasoning, therefore I also know that somethings are best experienced first hand than via proxy.

]]> By: Arania http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/05/carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-9173 Arania Sat, 26 Dec 2009 20:23:16 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/05/a-carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-9173 So is my chiro the only one not claiming funny things then? Until today, I wasn't even aware that some of them claim to be able to heal whatever. I just go there for issues with my spine, hip and shoulder and it works well for that. So is my chiro the only one not claiming funny things then? Until today, I wasn't even aware that some of them claim to be able to heal whatever. I just go there for issues with my spine, hip and shoulder and it works well for that.

]]> By: Le Canard Noir http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/05/carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8531 Le Canard Noir Wed, 08 Jul 2009 13:42:10 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/05/a-carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8531 I am not sure that is true about the evidence base for chiro and back pain. It would be good if you could reference such assertions. <br /><br />My understanding is that back pain is a chronic condition where there is no one good intervention that can described as effective. Pain killers help, a little chiro may help too - but not much.<br /><br />Assuming you are not a chiro advertising here, you may like to also consider this review of the NICE guidelines:<br /><br />http://www.dcscience.net/?p=1516 I am not sure that is true about the evidence base for chiro and back pain. It would be good if you could reference such assertions.

My understanding is that back pain is a chronic condition where there is no one good intervention that can described as effective. Pain killers help, a little chiro may help too – but not much.

Assuming you are not a chiro advertising here, you may like to also consider this review of the NICE guidelines:

http://www.dcscience.net/?p=1516

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/05/carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8530 Anonymous Wed, 08 Jul 2009 13:16:19 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/05/a-carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8530 The evidence is far stronger than for spinal surgery or medication, so I will go along with the NICE recommendations, who are as evidence based and as you can get. The evidence is far stronger than for spinal surgery or medication, so I will go along with the NICE recommendations, who are as evidence based and as you can get.

]]> By: Le Canard Noir http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/05/carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8528 Le Canard Noir Wed, 08 Jul 2009 08:34:44 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/05/a-carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8528 Anonymous - if chiropractic can help lower back pain then so be it. The evidence is not as strong as you might think and NICE have been heavily criticised for making this recommendation. eg. <a href="http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=4120823" rel="nofollow">here</a>.<br /><br />What the argument here is about though is chiropractic for childhood, non-spinal ailments - for which there is no reason to believe they are effective.<br /><br />This is not 'Petty scaremongering gossip' but a valid concern about the overpromotion of an alternative medicine that has not been proven. Anonymous – if chiropractic can help lower back pain then so be it. The evidence is not as strong as you might think and NICE have been heavily criticised for making this recommendation. eg. here.

What the argument here is about though is chiropractic for childhood, non-spinal ailments – for which there is no reason to believe they are effective.

This is not 'Petty scaremongering gossip' but a valid concern about the overpromotion of an alternative medicine that has not been proven.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/05/carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8527 Anonymous Tue, 07 Jul 2009 23:30:17 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/05/a-carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8527 The National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) is the independent organisation responsible for providing national guidance for healthcare within the U.K<br />Modern healthcare relies on this independant research organisation for guidance into the most cost effective form of healthcare interventions.<br />The NICE guidelines appear to back chiropractic for low back pain, and according to research, now advise against other forms of care that have been 'modern healthcare' and NHS funded for a number of years. <br />If chiropractic manipulation has proved its effectiveness for certain conditions, then this should be used to help the general public.<br />Petty scaremongering gossip will not help anyone. The National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) is the independent organisation responsible for providing national guidance for healthcare within the U.K
Modern healthcare relies on this independant research organisation for guidance into the most cost effective form of healthcare interventions.
The NICE guidelines appear to back chiropractic for low back pain, and according to research, now advise against other forms of care that have been 'modern healthcare' and NHS funded for a number of years.
If chiropractic manipulation has proved its effectiveness for certain conditions, then this should be used to help the general public.
Petty scaremongering gossip will not help anyone.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/05/carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8521 Anonymous Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:25:29 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/05/a-carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8521 Having read many of the concerned comments above i would just like to say that I have been helped by a chiropractor for my crippling headaches. Yes, I alos know that they are caused by stress, but who is not stressed these days. I had an xray any have early degeneration at age 35, from an old moto cross injury. I consider my chiropractic care to have been straightforward, commonsense, practical and informed. The NHS suggested oromorph (morphine) dihydrocodeine, amitryptaline and pain clinic counselling. I compete in international triathlon. Tell me I am wrong visiting the chiropractor for help ! Having read many of the concerned comments above i would just like to say that I have been helped by a chiropractor for my crippling headaches. Yes, I alos know that they are caused by stress, but who is not stressed these days. I had an xray any have early degeneration at age 35, from an old moto cross injury. I consider my chiropractic care to have been straightforward, commonsense, practical and informed. The NHS suggested oromorph (morphine) dihydrocodeine, amitryptaline and pain clinic counselling. I compete in international triathlon. Tell me I am wrong visiting the chiropractor for help !

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/05/carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8518 Anonymous Sun, 05 Jul 2009 21:48:01 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/05/a-carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8518 I would like to know why people always have their digs at chiropractors and not osteopaths or physiotherapists who both will manipulate the spine. The NICE guidelines now reccomend a course of spinal manipulation for chronic low back pain...please explain why this would be if chiropractic treatment was bogus, did not work and unsafe!? It is because it works!! I would rather see a professional with 4-5 years training in manipulation rather that a weekend course, which is what other healthcare professionals are now doing!! and why are they doing this if it doesn't work and is unsafe? Professional chiropractors should never claim to cure these other conditions, only help in possibly relieving some of the symptoms for which evidence does exist.<br />Maybe some people would rather head straight for back surgery rather than conservative care.. well that up to you, but maybe you should look up the statistics on failed back surgey!! I would like to know why people always have their digs at chiropractors and not osteopaths or physiotherapists who both will manipulate the spine. The NICE guidelines now reccomend a course of spinal manipulation for chronic low back pain…please explain why this would be if chiropractic treatment was bogus, did not work and unsafe!? It is because it works!! I would rather see a professional with 4-5 years training in manipulation rather that a weekend course, which is what other healthcare professionals are now doing!! and why are they doing this if it doesn't work and is unsafe? Professional chiropractors should never claim to cure these other conditions, only help in possibly relieving some of the symptoms for which evidence does exist.
Maybe some people would rather head straight for back surgery rather than conservative care.. well that up to you, but maybe you should look up the statistics on failed back surgey!!

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/05/carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8318 Anonymous Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:39:59 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/05/a-carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8318 Didn't NICE recently recommend chiropractic and osteopathy (spinal manipulation) for back pain - based on evidence. Does anyone know if there is any evidence physiotherapy helps low back pain or are we all paying taxes for unproven treatments via the NHS.<br />What is the evidence base for a lot of what goes on in the NHS such as physiotherapy, art therapy, homoepathy (do we still fund homoepathic hospitals?) occupational therapy, psychotherapy, IVF, ECT and etc. Much of this being pre NICE fell under the NICE radar. . NICE needs to extend its scope.<br />As for titles - I have come across dentists using Dr and osteopaths as well as chiropractors. <br />Can similar criticisms be also made of osteopathy. A brief look at the BOA (British osteopathic asociation)website front page tells us : ''A baby has to cope with the stresses of birth, and a toddler may have frequent ear and/or chest infections. The school child carries heavy school bags, whilst the student spends long hours hunched over the laptop peering at low level screens. Driving to work and long hours at a desk increase the pains begun as a student. Sports people push their bodies to the limit and over-stretch their ligaments and tendons. In old age our joints stiffen and our circulation slows. These are the types of activities that lead to long or short term discomfort and pain which an osteopath can alleviate.'' Ear and chest infections - can they prove it?<br />A glance at a Felixstowe osteopaths website would lead the unsuspecting to belive they treat; glue ear, teeth grinding, insomnia, asthma, colic, sinus pain, heartburn , constipation, morning sickness, developmental delay, and IBS. <br />I would not doubt they can help with back pain - as NICE suggest, but the other stuff? <br />Are they any different to chiroprators? Didn't NICE recently recommend chiropractic and osteopathy (spinal manipulation) for back pain – based on evidence. Does anyone know if there is any evidence physiotherapy helps low back pain or are we all paying taxes for unproven treatments via the NHS.
What is the evidence base for a lot of what goes on in the NHS such as physiotherapy, art therapy, homoepathy (do we still fund homoepathic hospitals?) occupational therapy, psychotherapy, IVF, ECT and etc. Much of this being pre NICE fell under the NICE radar. . NICE needs to extend its scope.
As for titles – I have come across dentists using Dr and osteopaths as well as chiropractors.
Can similar criticisms be also made of osteopathy. A brief look at the BOA (British osteopathic asociation)website front page tells us : ''A baby has to cope with the stresses of birth, and a toddler may have frequent ear and/or chest infections. The school child carries heavy school bags, whilst the student spends long hours hunched over the laptop peering at low level screens. Driving to work and long hours at a desk increase the pains begun as a student. Sports people push their bodies to the limit and over-stretch their ligaments and tendons. In old age our joints stiffen and our circulation slows. These are the types of activities that lead to long or short term discomfort and pain which an osteopath can alleviate.'' Ear and chest infections – can they prove it?
A glance at a Felixstowe osteopaths website would lead the unsuspecting to belive they treat; glue ear, teeth grinding, insomnia, asthma, colic, sinus pain, heartburn , constipation, morning sickness, developmental delay, and IBS.
I would not doubt they can help with back pain – as NICE suggest, but the other stuff?
Are they any different to chiroprators?

]]> By: Le Canard Noir http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/05/carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8163 Le Canard Noir Tue, 09 Jun 2009 16:14:17 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/05/a-carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8163 I believe Dr Farthing has now been struck off and calls himself an Osteomyologist, thus circumventing regulation.<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteomyology I believe Dr Farthing has now been struck off and calls himself an Osteomyologist, thus circumventing regulation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteomyology

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