Comments on: A Carnival of Bogus* Chiropractic http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/05/carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html Experiments and Thoughts on Quackery, Health Beliefs and Pseudoscience Thu, 09 Feb 2012 21:47:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Badly Shaved Monkey http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/05/carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-15227 Badly Shaved Monkey Mon, 25 Jul 2011 10:07:47 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/05/a-carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-15227 http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/dummy-medicines-dummy-doctors-dummy-degree-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-71272 where I said, "the darwinianly successful SCAMster is the one who keeps he patient coming back frequently to have their “treatment” tuned up. What must not be allowed to happen is for the patient to be left alone with their problem. If the therapist is really successful he or she can control the message so tightly that he/she can engineer the death of the patient (Cf Penelope Dingle)" http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/dummy-medicines-dummy-doctors-dummy-degree-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-71272

where I said,

“the darwinianly successful SCAMster is the one who keeps he patient coming back frequently to have their “treatment” tuned up. What must not be allowed to happen is for the patient to be left alone with their problem. If the therapist is really successful he or she can control the message so tightly that he/she can engineer the death of the patient (Cf Penelope Dingle)”

]]> By: le canard noir http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/05/carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-15224 le canard noir Sun, 24 Jul 2011 09:55:30 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/05/a-carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-15224 It is illegal for anyone to give you an x-ray without a specific medical justification. Chiropractors have been under a lot of criticism for using X-rays as a sales tool, rather than a diagnostic tool. Since the core belief of chiropractic is about the detection of subluxations (which do not exist) chiropractic x-raying is a very dubious activity. Chiropractors have also been heavily criticised for heavy sales techniques that often involve roping in other family members for 'wellness' programmes. Chiropractors are unable to show any evidence of benefit for such programmes. If you feel that your chiropractor has not been acting solely in your best interest, you should write to the General Chiropractic Council with your concerns. http://www.gcc-uk.org/page.cfm?page_id=27 It is illegal for anyone to give you an x-ray without a specific medical justification.

Chiropractors have been under a lot of criticism for using X-rays as a sales tool, rather than a diagnostic tool. Since the core belief of chiropractic is about the detection of subluxations (which do not exist) chiropractic x-raying is a very dubious activity.

Chiropractors have also been heavily criticised for heavy sales techniques that often involve roping in other family members for ‘wellness’ programmes. Chiropractors are unable to show any evidence of benefit for such programmes.

If you feel that your chiropractor has not been acting solely in your best interest, you should write to the General Chiropractic Council with your concerns.

http://www.gcc-uk.org/page.cfm?page_id=27

]]> By: chrissie http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/05/carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-15221 chrissie Sat, 23 Jul 2011 12:00:34 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/05/a-carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-15221 I have had a couple of appointments at the Ideal Spine Centre in Canterbury and am rather sceptical about their methods in that I have had a couple of appointments (x rays) etc., but no actual examination which I find bizarre and asking me to check the posture of the rest of the family. Am I being paranoid or do you think like me that this is all about the money??? I have had a couple of appointments at the Ideal Spine Centre in Canterbury and am rather sceptical about their methods in that I have had a couple of appointments (x rays) etc., but no actual examination which I find bizarre and asking me to check the posture of the rest of the family. Am I being paranoid or do you think like me that this is all about the money???

]]> By: Nick http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/05/carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-11640 Nick Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:44:23 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/05/a-carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-11640 I for one have suffered from constant migraines and neck aches since I was a child. The only method of relief the doctor provided was through painkillers which eventually started causing problems of their own. I started seeing a Chiropractor a few years back and even after my first adjustment I noticed instant relief. I now go only a couple of times every few months, my neck is fine, my posture is 300% better, I no longer suffer from migraines, my jaw no longer aches and gurns constantly. I have also referred my brother after a freak "crack" of his spine whilst doing some mundane taske left him in crippling pain and unable to stand properly, one adjustment and he was right as rain again. I was also referred originally by someone else who also swore by them (a member of my family) and had been recieving care on and off for a number of years, when need be. Mine certainly doesn't claim to perform miracles and I am glad I went, I both trust my Chiropractor and highly recommend him to anyone else with spinal issues. Just for reference I am a professional software engineer with a strong grasp of logic and reasoning, therefore I also know that somethings are best experienced first hand than via proxy. I for one have suffered from constant migraines and neck aches since I was a child. The only method of relief the doctor provided was through painkillers which eventually started causing problems of their own.

I started seeing a Chiropractor a few years back and even after my first adjustment I noticed instant relief. I now go only a couple of times every few months, my neck is fine, my posture is 300% better, I no longer suffer from migraines, my jaw no longer aches and gurns constantly.

I have also referred my brother after a freak “crack” of his spine whilst doing some mundane taske left him in crippling pain and unable to stand properly, one adjustment and he was right as rain again. I was also referred originally by someone else who also swore by them (a member of my family) and had been recieving care on and off for a number of years, when need be.

Mine certainly doesn’t claim to perform miracles and I am glad I went, I both trust my Chiropractor and highly recommend him to anyone else with spinal issues.

Just for reference I am a professional software engineer with a strong grasp of logic and reasoning, therefore I also know that somethings are best experienced first hand than via proxy.

]]> By: Arania http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/05/carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-9173 Arania Sat, 26 Dec 2009 20:23:16 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/05/a-carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-9173 So is my chiro the only one not claiming funny things then? Until today, I wasn't even aware that some of them claim to be able to heal whatever. I just go there for issues with my spine, hip and shoulder and it works well for that. So is my chiro the only one not claiming funny things then? Until today, I wasn't even aware that some of them claim to be able to heal whatever. I just go there for issues with my spine, hip and shoulder and it works well for that.

]]> By: Le Canard Noir http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/05/carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8531 Le Canard Noir Wed, 08 Jul 2009 13:42:10 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/05/a-carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8531 I am not sure that is true about the evidence base for chiro and back pain. It would be good if you could reference such assertions. <br /><br />My understanding is that back pain is a chronic condition where there is no one good intervention that can described as effective. Pain killers help, a little chiro may help too - but not much.<br /><br />Assuming you are not a chiro advertising here, you may like to also consider this review of the NICE guidelines:<br /><br />http://www.dcscience.net/?p=1516 I am not sure that is true about the evidence base for chiro and back pain. It would be good if you could reference such assertions.

My understanding is that back pain is a chronic condition where there is no one good intervention that can described as effective. Pain killers help, a little chiro may help too – but not much.

Assuming you are not a chiro advertising here, you may like to also consider this review of the NICE guidelines:

http://www.dcscience.net/?p=1516

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/05/carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8530 Anonymous Wed, 08 Jul 2009 13:16:19 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/05/a-carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8530 The evidence is far stronger than for spinal surgery or medication, so I will go along with the NICE recommendations, who are as evidence based and as you can get. The evidence is far stronger than for spinal surgery or medication, so I will go along with the NICE recommendations, who are as evidence based and as you can get.

]]> By: Le Canard Noir http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/05/carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8528 Le Canard Noir Wed, 08 Jul 2009 08:34:44 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/05/a-carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8528 Anonymous - if chiropractic can help lower back pain then so be it. The evidence is not as strong as you might think and NICE have been heavily criticised for making this recommendation. eg. <a href="http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=4120823" rel="nofollow">here</a>.<br /><br />What the argument here is about though is chiropractic for childhood, non-spinal ailments - for which there is no reason to believe they are effective.<br /><br />This is not 'Petty scaremongering gossip' but a valid concern about the overpromotion of an alternative medicine that has not been proven. Anonymous – if chiropractic can help lower back pain then so be it. The evidence is not as strong as you might think and NICE have been heavily criticised for making this recommendation. eg. here.

What the argument here is about though is chiropractic for childhood, non-spinal ailments – for which there is no reason to believe they are effective.

This is not 'Petty scaremongering gossip' but a valid concern about the overpromotion of an alternative medicine that has not been proven.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/05/carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8527 Anonymous Tue, 07 Jul 2009 23:30:17 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/05/a-carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8527 The National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) is the independent organisation responsible for providing national guidance for healthcare within the U.K<br />Modern healthcare relies on this independant research organisation for guidance into the most cost effective form of healthcare interventions.<br />The NICE guidelines appear to back chiropractic for low back pain, and according to research, now advise against other forms of care that have been 'modern healthcare' and NHS funded for a number of years. <br />If chiropractic manipulation has proved its effectiveness for certain conditions, then this should be used to help the general public.<br />Petty scaremongering gossip will not help anyone. The National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) is the independent organisation responsible for providing national guidance for healthcare within the U.K
Modern healthcare relies on this independant research organisation for guidance into the most cost effective form of healthcare interventions.
The NICE guidelines appear to back chiropractic for low back pain, and according to research, now advise against other forms of care that have been 'modern healthcare' and NHS funded for a number of years.
If chiropractic manipulation has proved its effectiveness for certain conditions, then this should be used to help the general public.
Petty scaremongering gossip will not help anyone.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/05/carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8521 Anonymous Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:25:29 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/05/a-carnival-of-bogus-chiropractic.html#comment-8521 Having read many of the concerned comments above i would just like to say that I have been helped by a chiropractor for my crippling headaches. Yes, I alos know that they are caused by stress, but who is not stressed these days. I had an xray any have early degeneration at age 35, from an old moto cross injury. I consider my chiropractic care to have been straightforward, commonsense, practical and informed. The NHS suggested oromorph (morphine) dihydrocodeine, amitryptaline and pain clinic counselling. I compete in international triathlon. Tell me I am wrong visiting the chiropractor for help ! Having read many of the concerned comments above i would just like to say that I have been helped by a chiropractor for my crippling headaches. Yes, I alos know that they are caused by stress, but who is not stressed these days. I had an xray any have early degeneration at age 35, from an old moto cross injury. I consider my chiropractic care to have been straightforward, commonsense, practical and informed. The NHS suggested oromorph (morphine) dihydrocodeine, amitryptaline and pain clinic counselling. I compete in international triathlon. Tell me I am wrong visiting the chiropractor for help !

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