Comments on: The University of Wales is Responsible for Enabling Bogus* Chiropractic Claims to be Made http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/06/university-of-wales-is-responsible-for.html Experiments and Thoughts on Quackery, Health Beliefs and Pseudoscience Thu, 09 Feb 2012 21:47:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: McTimoney Chiropractic College in Deep Trouble | The Quackometer http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/06/university-of-wales-is-responsible-for.html#comment-15964 McTimoney Chiropractic College in Deep Trouble | The Quackometer Mon, 03 Oct 2011 18:07:59 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/06/the-university-of-wales-is-responsible-for-enabling-bogus-chiropractic-claims-to-be-made.html#comment-15964 [...] to home, the University has been accrediting the controversial McTimoney Chiropractic College in Abingdon. When the British Chiropractic Association decided to sue [...] [...] to home, the University has been accrediting the controversial McTimoney Chiropractic College in Abingdon. When the British Chiropractic Association decided to sue [...]

]]> By: Chiropractor Goleta http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/06/university-of-wales-is-responsible-for.html#comment-14250 Chiropractor Goleta Sun, 13 Feb 2011 23:10:52 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/06/the-university-of-wales-is-responsible-for-enabling-bogus-chiropractic-claims-to-be-made.html#comment-14250 Ear infections are typically caused by fluid build up in the middle ear. The Eustachian tube is constricted not allowing fluid to drain out of the ear and into the back of the throat. The Eustachian tube is a muscle and can become constricted if the nerves innervating it are compressed in anyway. To get to the root cause of the problem, you should address the cervical plexus (C1-C4) for subluxations. Ear infections are typically caused by fluid build up in the middle ear. The Eustachian tube is constricted not allowing fluid to drain out of the ear and into the back of the throat. The Eustachian tube is a muscle and can become constricted if the nerves innervating it are compressed in anyway. To get to the root cause of the problem, you should address the cervical plexus (C1-C4) for subluxations.

]]> By: Chiropractors at War with their Regulator, the GCC | The Quackometer http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/06/university-of-wales-is-responsible-for.html#comment-12889 Chiropractors at War with their Regulator, the GCC | The Quackometer Mon, 01 Nov 2010 12:04:08 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/06/the-university-of-wales-is-responsible-for-enabling-bogus-chiropractic-claims-to-be-made.html#comment-12889 [...] of their money grabbing complicity in the deception that is much of chiropractic. For example, the University of Wales provides the academic accreditation for the McTimoney College in Abingdon – a college that offers MSc’s [...] [...] of their money grabbing complicity in the deception that is much of chiropractic. For example, the University of Wales provides the academic accreditation for the McTimoney College in Abingdon – a college that offers MSc’s [...]

]]> By: Just a Mum http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/06/university-of-wales-is-responsible-for.html#comment-12616 Just a Mum Tue, 12 Oct 2010 11:06:57 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/06/the-university-of-wales-is-responsible-for-enabling-bogus-chiropractic-claims-to-be-made.html#comment-12616 As a consumer of the chiropractor profession, I have had very good experiences and so so ones. My best experience was when my daughter (ten months at the time? I think?) was being watched by a specialist because she wasn't reaching the milestone of the sitting position in the time that she should have. I heard about a GP that did manipulations on babies and I thought I'd see if that could help. The Doctor did some manipulations and by the next day she was sitting. Also I had a very bad pregnancy with my son and went to a chiropractor when I was in hospital before he was born. I couldn't stand the pain in my back. None of the hospital staff seemed interested in my back pain, therefore I went to see if he could help. The chiropator wasn't keen to do anything but he did do a small amount. The small amount was enough to take away most of the pain. It helped a lot! My reason for saying all this is I agree that there needs to be evidence to support a practice so people are not doing something blind, but to be honest all people in the health profession are "known" in a community as good or not. As was the case with the people I've used. So if their work works, people go to them and it soon gets around. Word of mouth and reputation I believe is a powerful aspect to any profession regardless of letters or what type of letters at the end of a name (no disrespect to those who have worked hard to get those letters just saying it as it is). As a consumer of the chiropractor profession, I have had very good experiences and so so ones. My best experience was when my daughter (ten months at the time? I think?) was being watched by a specialist because she wasn’t reaching the milestone of the sitting position in the time that she should have. I heard about a GP that did manipulations on babies and I thought I’d see if that could help. The Doctor did some manipulations and by the next day she was sitting. Also I had a very bad pregnancy with my son and went to a chiropractor when I was in hospital before he was born. I couldn’t stand the pain in my back. None of the hospital staff seemed interested in my back pain, therefore I went to see if he could help. The chiropator wasn’t keen to do anything but he did do a small amount. The small amount was enough to take away most of the pain. It helped a lot! My reason for saying all this is I agree that there needs to be evidence to support a practice so people are not doing something blind, but to be honest all people in the health profession are “known” in a community as good or not. As was the case with the people I’ve used. So if their work works, people go to them and it soon gets around. Word of mouth and reputation I believe is a powerful aspect to any profession regardless of letters or what type of letters at the end of a name (no disrespect to those who have worked hard to get those letters just saying it as it is).

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/06/university-of-wales-is-responsible-for.html#comment-9884 Anonymous Thu, 11 Feb 2010 08:11:43 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/06/the-university-of-wales-is-responsible-for-enabling-bogus-chiropractic-claims-to-be-made.html#comment-9884 Blogger you are a moron, and Richard Lanigan is correct. <br /><br />As for your name, you discredit it, so I don't really care what it is, and I'm not sure why you are so filled with venom and hate for something you know nothing about - obviously your atlas is up your arse. Blogger you are a moron, and Richard Lanigan is correct.

As for your name, you discredit it, so I don't really care what it is, and I'm not sure why you are so filled with venom and hate for something you know nothing about – obviously your atlas is up your arse.

]]> By: D P http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/06/university-of-wales-is-responsible-for.html#comment-8494 D P Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:44:06 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/06/the-university-of-wales-is-responsible-for-enabling-bogus-chiropractic-claims-to-be-made.html#comment-8494 I've just started study at the McTimoney college in Abingdon and am 6 months into my first year of the 5 year program. As you can imagine i meet this recent development with mixed views. On one hand i'm glad the profession and my college along with is members are pushed into a corner to consider how we can conduct ourselves from now on to help the profession and ratify what we all believe as students and regular patients of Chiropractic; It has a place in modern healthcare and helps give many individuals relief from disscomfort. The scientific basis to the course, which has recently been altered to fullfill the GCC requirements, is a great comfort to me and contradicts the earlier post of 'pseudoscientific' training. The college has worked very hard to evict the sandal wearing, tie-dye image of Mctimoney but unfortunately like with most things it takes time. Persecution always comes from lack of understanding and i intend to make it my responsability to, where possible, not tell tales on the bullies but face them head on and try to answer whatever questions they want to ask. For now i don't have the answers and i may never have them, but what i do know is that 15 years ago as a teenager i first walked into a chiropractor's practice with low back pain that left me almost fainting with pain and after my visit i didn't. You may argue that any therapy may have helped but many didn't including pysiotherapy. If it works for the patient and the practitioner is carrying out the treatment in a safe manner under safety guidlines and in good faith that what they are doing is going to be of benefit to the patient, all i can see that needs to be addressed is a poorly advised p.r campaign. As for court action as opposed to evidence submission to feed the appetite of the hungry villagers on their witch hunt... sometimes the monkeys need to grind the organ and tell the organ grinders - 'rather than concentrating on observing the practice of their members so closely perhaps they need to regulate their own actions for the sake of everyone'... please... I've just started study at the McTimoney college in Abingdon and am 6 months into my first year of the 5 year program. As you can imagine i meet this recent development with mixed views. On one hand i'm glad the profession and my college along with is members are pushed into a corner to consider how we can conduct ourselves from now on to help the profession and ratify what we all believe as students and regular patients of Chiropractic; It has a place in modern healthcare and helps give many individuals relief from disscomfort. The scientific basis to the course, which has recently been altered to fullfill the GCC requirements, is a great comfort to me and contradicts the earlier post of 'pseudoscientific' training. The college has worked very hard to evict the sandal wearing, tie-dye image of Mctimoney but unfortunately like with most things it takes time. Persecution always comes from lack of understanding and i intend to make it my responsability to, where possible, not tell tales on the bullies but face them head on and try to answer whatever questions they want to ask. For now i don't have the answers and i may never have them, but what i do know is that 15 years ago as a teenager i first walked into a chiropractor's practice with low back pain that left me almost fainting with pain and after my visit i didn't. You may argue that any therapy may have helped but many didn't including pysiotherapy. If it works for the patient and the practitioner is carrying out the treatment in a safe manner under safety guidlines and in good faith that what they are doing is going to be of benefit to the patient, all i can see that needs to be addressed is a poorly advised p.r campaign. As for court action as opposed to evidence submission to feed the appetite of the hungry villagers on their witch hunt… sometimes the monkeys need to grind the organ and tell the organ grinders – 'rather than concentrating on observing the practice of their members so closely perhaps they need to regulate their own actions for the sake of everyone'… please…

]]> By: Richard Lanigan http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/06/university-of-wales-is-responsible-for.html#comment-8485 Richard Lanigan Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:15:33 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/06/the-university-of-wales-is-responsible-for-enabling-bogus-chiropractic-claims-to-be-made.html#comment-8485 The MSC is a three year course with a dissertation at the end. Steve Williams course is a seminar teaching a technique. Steve is on the Board of the GCC and obviously believes as I do that having spinal joints that move symmetrically mean receptors are been activated symmetrically and this enhances health.<br />My evidence I started off reading the evidence and tried things; Now I have four children who never had any medicine. That is not to say if they got run over by a car or contracted meningitis I would not seek medical treatment. I just dont rate the biomedical model so highly at promoting health which after all is hardly an exact science anyway, look at chiropractors as personal trainers who enhance the function of the spinal joints, nerves muscles etc and who knows what else. <br />Chiropractors should not claim to treat anything, but they do because many have been trained to think medially and focus on symptom resolution. Chiropractors love preaching to the converted, these discussions will help the profession to look at how they present themselves.<br /> I have no doubt the AECC is the best chiropractic college in the world (I have visited 12)and I suspect the chiropractor posting above is a tutor from there its rather depressing they don’t use their names for fear of saying the wrong thing and not doing what the BCA lawyers want.<br /> I would say to any of you check out the AECC, if I have a criticism of the course its that they have tried too hard to make it like a medical degree. The MSC is a three year course with a dissertation at the end. Steve Williams course is a seminar teaching a technique. Steve is on the Board of the GCC and obviously believes as I do that having spinal joints that move symmetrically mean receptors are been activated symmetrically and this enhances health.
My evidence I started off reading the evidence and tried things; Now I have four children who never had any medicine. That is not to say if they got run over by a car or contracted meningitis I would not seek medical treatment. I just dont rate the biomedical model so highly at promoting health which after all is hardly an exact science anyway, look at chiropractors as personal trainers who enhance the function of the spinal joints, nerves muscles etc and who knows what else.
Chiropractors should not claim to treat anything, but they do because many have been trained to think medially and focus on symptom resolution. Chiropractors love preaching to the converted, these discussions will help the profession to look at how they present themselves.
I have no doubt the AECC is the best chiropractic college in the world (I have visited 12)and I suspect the chiropractor posting above is a tutor from there its rather depressing they don’t use their names for fear of saying the wrong thing and not doing what the BCA lawyers want.
I would say to any of you check out the AECC, if I have a criticism of the course its that they have tried too hard to make it like a medical degree.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/06/university-of-wales-is-responsible-for.html#comment-8420 Anonymous Mon, 15 Jun 2009 09:12:35 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/06/the-university-of-wales-is-responsible-for-enabling-bogus-chiropractic-claims-to-be-made.html#comment-8420 I am not aware of any risks that chiropractic causes to children. I have seen firsthand problems resulting from drug side effects though. When looking at what a parent's options are, I would go with the least invasive, most natural treatments first, and then try the medical route if those don't work. Besides, other mother's have reported some pretty amazing results from chiropractic care for their children. Just because I don't understand how it works doesn't mean I'm going to discount it. Plus, I live in America and the chiropractic curriculum here looks as good as med school, just a different focus:<br />http://positivemotionchiropractic.com/downloads/How-Well-Educated-Is-Your-Chiropractor.pdf I am not aware of any risks that chiropractic causes to children. I have seen firsthand problems resulting from drug side effects though. When looking at what a parent's options are, I would go with the least invasive, most natural treatments first, and then try the medical route if those don't work. Besides, other mother's have reported some pretty amazing results from chiropractic care for their children. Just because I don't understand how it works doesn't mean I'm going to discount it. Plus, I live in America and the chiropractic curriculum here looks as good as med school, just a different focus:
http://positivemotionchiropractic.com/downloads/How-Well-Educated-Is-Your-Chiropractor.pdf

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/06/university-of-wales-is-responsible-for.html#comment-8324 Anonymous Thu, 11 Jun 2009 21:13:43 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/06/the-university-of-wales-is-responsible-for-enabling-bogus-chiropractic-claims-to-be-made.html#comment-8324 Regarding your final point, to what risks are you referring? Regarding your final point, to what risks are you referring?

]]> By: Le Canard Noir http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/06/university-of-wales-is-responsible-for.html#comment-8274 Le Canard Noir Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:01:42 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/06/the-university-of-wales-is-responsible-for-enabling-bogus-chiropractic-claims-to-be-made.html#comment-8274 Thank you for your constructive comments. <br /><br />I have no doubt that chiropractic can help somewhat with lower back pain. Whether it is an appropriate treatment though is a very different matter.<br /><br />This post is about something quite specific:<br /><br />- the lack of good evidence base for treating children<br />- the pseudoscientific nature of McTimoney teaching on chiropractic<br />- the fact that an MSc in paediatric chiropractic is being offered<br />- the fact that this MSc is underwritten by a University<br /><br />And so the question: should a University be underwriting a MSc in a subject that is based on pseudoscientific principles and where there is no good evidence that the methods taught are effective and where there may be risks to a children?<br /><br />Those are the quesitons that need addressing. Thank you for your constructive comments.

I have no doubt that chiropractic can help somewhat with lower back pain. Whether it is an appropriate treatment though is a very different matter.

This post is about something quite specific:

- the lack of good evidence base for treating children
- the pseudoscientific nature of McTimoney teaching on chiropractic
- the fact that an MSc in paediatric chiropractic is being offered
- the fact that this MSc is underwritten by a University

And so the question: should a University be underwriting a MSc in a subject that is based on pseudoscientific principles and where there is no good evidence that the methods taught are effective and where there may be risks to a children?

Those are the quesitons that need addressing.

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