Comments on: The Society of Homeopaths are a Shambles and a Bad Joke. http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/08/society-of-homeopaths-are-shambles-and.html Experiments and Thoughts on Quackery, Health Beliefs and Pseudoscience Thu, 09 Feb 2012 21:47:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: m http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/08/society-of-homeopaths-are-shambles-and.html#comment-14238 m Wed, 09 Feb 2011 18:23:52 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/08/the-society-of-homeopaths-are-a-shambles-and-a-bad-joke.html#comment-14238 o.k. lets get YOU into a hospital...give you cancer/diarrhea/small pox/polio/flu..etc.../ and then watch you treat and cure yourself with phoneopathy. you believe in it sooooooo much you should have no problem with this "experiment". go do it and then show your results...or shut the fuck up you fucking qwack charlatan con artist criminal! o.k.
lets get YOU into a hospital…give you cancer/diarrhea/small pox/polio/flu..etc…/ and then watch you treat and cure yourself with phoneopathy.
you believe in it sooooooo much you should have no problem with this “experiment”.
go do it and then show your results…or shut the fuck up you fucking qwack charlatan con artist criminal!

]]> By: m http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/08/society-of-homeopaths-are-shambles-and.html#comment-14237 m Wed, 09 Feb 2011 18:15:55 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/08/the-society-of-homeopaths-are-a-shambles-and-a-bad-joke.html#comment-14237 your a LOONY!!!!!!!!!! your a LOONY!!!!!!!!!!

]]> By: malc http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/08/society-of-homeopaths-are-shambles-and.html#comment-12464 malc Tue, 28 Sep 2010 09:53:21 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/08/the-society-of-homeopaths-are-a-shambles-and-a-bad-joke.html#comment-12464 ..and a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down.... ..and a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down….

]]> By: Le Canard Noir http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/08/society-of-homeopaths-are-shambles-and.html#comment-11201 Le Canard Noir Thu, 01 Apr 2010 11:31:17 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/08/the-society-of-homeopaths-are-a-shambles-and-a-bad-joke.html#comment-11201 So many confusions in so few words. Where to start... "This is what Meta Analysis does, it picks the strongest trials etc, it cherry picks" Yes, but they select on quality and then look at the results. Homeopaths cherry pick by selecting on results regardless of quality. "Placebo is evidence of effect, not of the tested substance but of the body’s conscious response." Not true. A placebo may not induce a placebo effect. The natural course of an illness may mean people get better without any 'bind-body' effects. "How is it possible to know if it is a placebo effect or the actual Homeopathic remedy?" You do trials. If homeopaths comes out the same as a placebo then it looks like the homeopathy voodoo has no specific effects. "Some remedies my simply have a subtle effect, however positive." Ask your patients if they are happy with an undetectable subtle effect from your work. "Science is about healthy skepticism, not some hysterical throwback witch trial." Witch trials are appropriate when you deal with witches. So many confusions in so few words.

Where to start…

“This is what Meta Analysis does, it picks the strongest trials etc, it cherry picks”

Yes, but they select on quality and then look at the results.
Homeopaths cherry pick by selecting on results regardless of quality.

“Placebo is evidence of effect, not of the tested substance but of the body’s conscious response.”

Not true. A placebo may not induce a placebo effect. The natural course of an illness may mean people get better without any ‘bind-body’ effects.

“How is it possible to know if it is a placebo effect or the actual Homeopathic remedy?”

You do trials. If homeopaths comes out the same as a placebo then it looks like the homeopathy voodoo has no specific effects.

“Some remedies my simply have a subtle effect, however positive.”
Ask your patients if they are happy with an undetectable subtle effect from your work.

“Science is about healthy skepticism, not some hysterical throwback witch trial.”

Witch trials are appropriate when you deal with witches.

]]> By: Jarad http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/08/society-of-homeopaths-are-shambles-and.html#comment-11198 Jarad Thu, 01 Apr 2010 09:24:53 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/08/the-society-of-homeopaths-are-a-shambles-and-a-bad-joke.html#comment-11198 Pharmaceutical companies not only cherry pick evidence they Ghost Write articles. They deliberately lie. Of course one picks the trials that support the case. This is what Meta Analysis does, it picks the strongest trials etc, it cherry picks... that's the whole point. To say that Homeopathy is only as good as Placebo is different than saying not as good as placebo. Placebo is evidence of effect, not of the tested substance but of the body's conscious response. How is it possible to know if it is a placebo effect or the actual Homeopathic remedy? You cant... only if there is less of an effect than placebo. So you cannot say the Homeopathic remedy is not potentially doing an equal job to placebo. Some remedies my simply have a subtle effect, however positive. To deny this is as ignorant as you claim Homeopathy to be. Science is about healthy skepticism, not some hysterical throwback witch trial. Use science.... don't abuse it. Pharmaceutical companies not only cherry pick evidence they Ghost Write articles. They deliberately lie. Of course one picks the trials that support the case. This is what Meta Analysis does, it picks the strongest trials etc, it cherry picks… that’s the whole point.

To say that Homeopathy is only as good as Placebo is different than saying not as good as placebo.

Placebo is evidence of effect, not of the tested substance but of the body’s conscious response.

How is it possible to know if it is a placebo effect or the actual Homeopathic remedy? You cant… only if there is less of an effect than placebo. So you cannot say the Homeopathic remedy is not potentially doing an equal job to placebo.
Some remedies my simply have a subtle effect, however positive.
To deny this is as ignorant as you claim Homeopathy to be.

Science is about healthy skepticism, not some hysterical throwback witch trial.

Use science….

don’t abuse it.

]]> By: Homeopathy: A Warning from Africa | The Quackometer http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/08/society-of-homeopaths-are-shambles-and.html#comment-9911 Homeopathy: A Warning from Africa | The Quackometer Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:15:02 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/08/the-society-of-homeopaths-are-a-shambles-and-a-bad-joke.html#comment-9911 [...] The Society of Homeopaths are a Shambles and a Bad Joke. 71 comment(s) [...] [...] The Society of Homeopaths are a Shambles and a Bad Joke. 71 comment(s) [...]

]]> By: bilberry plus http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/08/society-of-homeopaths-are-shambles-and.html#comment-9155 bilberry plus Fri, 18 Dec 2009 11:09:29 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/08/the-society-of-homeopaths-are-a-shambles-and-a-bad-joke.html#comment-9155 The only amendment I'd make would be to insist on 30C remedies being used. They should have no trouble with this because this is the potency Hahnemann recommended for "provings" in the later editions of the Organon. The only amendment I'd make would be to insist on 30C remedies being used. They should have no trouble with this because this is the potency Hahnemann recommended for "provings" in the later editions of the Organon.

]]> By: Bard http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/08/society-of-homeopaths-are-shambles-and.html#comment-9081 Bard Tue, 24 Nov 2009 07:16:09 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/08/the-society-of-homeopaths-are-a-shambles-and-a-bad-joke.html#comment-9081 Wait a minute, we're talking about homeopathy here, right? Where they distill a substance that has never been proven to help treat a condition down to less than one molecule in the solution?<br />Then claim that water has a 'memory' against all the known laws of physics?<br />That's like three levels of bullshit. So why are we wasting our time talking about it? Anyone who believes it is obviously deluded.<br />Outlaw the damn thing. It's killing people. Wait a minute, we're talking about homeopathy here, right? Where they distill a substance that has never been proven to help treat a condition down to less than one molecule in the solution?
Then claim that water has a 'memory' against all the known laws of physics?
That's like three levels of bullshit. So why are we wasting our time talking about it? Anyone who believes it is obviously deluded.
Outlaw the damn thing. It's killing people.

]]> By: Derrik http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/08/society-of-homeopaths-are-shambles-and.html#comment-8878 Derrik Thu, 03 Sep 2009 18:50:14 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/08/the-society-of-homeopaths-are-a-shambles-and-a-bad-joke.html#comment-8878 Except Homoeopaths fudge proving. That fudging is part of what makes it a pseudo science, there not being a coherent set of ideas to subject to scientific scrutiny.<br /><br />In the past they did prove undiluted remedies. My favourite is the account of proving carb vedg (charcoal). They got the symptoms of scurvy, presumably because all that charcoal was sequestering vit C in their gut.<br /><br />Now do they not have panels of provers, with a senior prover taking in lists of symptoms experienced by the others and synthesising them together. Thus they suppose that an individual may not experience all the symptoms but together they can build a remedy picture.<br /><br />I think that having long been aware that they can do nothing like Andy's challenge they have instituted a sort of "cold reading" technique to practice on themselves and maintain their delusions. Except Homoeopaths fudge proving. That fudging is part of what makes it a pseudo science, there not being a coherent set of ideas to subject to scientific scrutiny.

In the past they did prove undiluted remedies. My favourite is the account of proving carb vedg (charcoal). They got the symptoms of scurvy, presumably because all that charcoal was sequestering vit C in their gut.

Now do they not have panels of provers, with a senior prover taking in lists of symptoms experienced by the others and synthesising them together. Thus they suppose that an individual may not experience all the symptoms but together they can build a remedy picture.

I think that having long been aware that they can do nothing like Andy's challenge they have instituted a sort of "cold reading" technique to practice on themselves and maintain their delusions.

]]> By: Mojo http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/08/society-of-homeopaths-are-shambles-and.html#comment-8868 Mojo Thu, 03 Sep 2009 11:25:11 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/08/the-society-of-homeopaths-are-a-shambles-and-a-bad-joke.html#comment-8868 Basically, if Andy's challenge is impossible, then so is homoeopathy, since it relies on identification of "proving" symptoms to decide which remedies are appropriate to treat which symptoms. Basically, if Andy's challenge is impossible, then so is homoeopathy, since it relies on identification of "proving" symptoms to decide which remedies are appropriate to treat which symptoms.

]]>