Comments on: John Wesley and The Origins of the Natural Health Movement http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/11/john-wesley-and-origins-of-natural.html Experiments and Thoughts on Quackery, Health Beliefs and Pseudoscience Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:52:56 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Meddling Princes, Medical Regulation and Licenses to Kill | The Quackometer http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/11/john-wesley-and-origins-of-natural.html#comment-11225 Meddling Princes, Medical Regulation and Licenses to Kill | The Quackometer Sun, 04 Apr 2010 22:59:18 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/11/john-wesley-and-the-origins-of-the-natural-health-movement.html#comment-11225 [...] from regular doctors, lay quacks, foreigners with exotic elixirs, and even preachers such as John Wesley (as we saw a few weeks ago). So popular were these various tonics and treatments that it has been [...] [...] from regular doctors, lay quacks, foreigners with exotic elixirs, and even preachers such as John Wesley (as we saw a few weeks ago). So popular were these various tonics and treatments that it has been [...]

]]> By: Los orígenes de lo naturista « Series Divergentes http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/11/john-wesley-and-origins-of-natural.html#comment-10931 Los orígenes de lo naturista « Series Divergentes Sun, 14 Mar 2010 04:02:14 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/11/john-wesley-and-the-origins-of-the-natural-health-movement.html#comment-10931 [...] por ricardos en 15 Noviembre 2009 Por medio de Pharyngula me enteré del extenso artículo publicado en the quackometer (que se puede traducir como “el charlatanómetro”) sobre John Wesley (más extenso el [...] [...] por ricardos en 15 Noviembre 2009 Por medio de Pharyngula me enteré del extenso artículo publicado en the quackometer (que se puede traducir como “el charlatanómetro”) sobre John Wesley (más extenso el [...]

]]> By: Le Canard Noir http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/11/john-wesley-and-origins-of-natural.html#comment-9941 Le Canard Noir Mon, 15 Feb 2010 00:00:38 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/11/john-wesley-and-the-origins-of-the-natural-health-movement.html#comment-9941 Thank you brave bemused. For my thoughts on the quack appropriation of iatrogenic harm, see here: http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2007/07/quack-word-20-iatrogenic.html Thank you brave bemused.

For my thoughts on the quack appropriation of iatrogenic harm, see here:

http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2007/07/quack-word-20-iatrogenic.html

]]> By: bemused http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/11/john-wesley-and-origins-of-natural.html#comment-9940 bemused Sun, 14 Feb 2010 23:48:58 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/11/john-wesley-and-the-origins-of-the-natural-health-movement.html#comment-9940 Quackometer, all your righteous accusations of 'natural health' practices as being any more suspicious than those you call evidence-based must be framed in the light of the dichotomy between those individuals for whom the core belief is that mind or consciousness precedes matter, or that mind is borne of and determined by matter. Your movement tacitly assumes the latter but without evidence. For many people who emphasise the former it is either all quackery or none of it is, and a precautionary preference is applied towards avoiding potentially toxic alien-to-nature treatments. As Voltaire said: ‘The role of the doctor is to distract the patient while Nature is curing the disease.' Also remember that we can generate evidence for any approach where there is sufficient funding and private interest to sustain a publication bias - think Vioxx but not Nux Vomica. As you are apparently of a problem-focused mindset rather than a health-creation one, and concerned to protect the public from the dangers of believing in the wrong medicine, perhaps also spend a little time on iatrogenic death and morbidity promoted by the other branch of medicine. Have you taken a look at the success rates of chemotherapy recently, or anti-depressants, and how much tax or insurance money is forcibly obtained to pay for them ? Ah no, homeopaths make much easier targets... Quackometer, all your righteous accusations of ‘natural health’ practices as being any more suspicious than those you call evidence-based must be framed in the light of the dichotomy between those individuals for whom the core belief is that mind or consciousness precedes matter, or that mind is borne of and determined by matter. Your movement tacitly assumes the latter but without evidence. For many people who emphasise the former it is either all quackery or none of it is, and a precautionary preference is applied towards avoiding potentially toxic alien-to-nature treatments. As Voltaire said: ‘The role of the doctor is to distract the patient while Nature is curing the disease.’

Also remember that we can generate evidence for any approach where there is sufficient funding and private interest to sustain a publication bias – think Vioxx but not Nux Vomica.

As you are apparently of a problem-focused mindset rather than a health-creation one, and concerned to protect the public from the dangers of believing in the wrong medicine, perhaps also spend a little time on iatrogenic death and morbidity promoted by the other branch of medicine. Have you taken a look at the success rates of chemotherapy recently, or anti-depressants, and how much tax or insurance money is forcibly obtained to pay for them ?

Ah no, homeopaths make much easier targets…

]]> By: Boots Maternity TENS Machines. Do they work? | The Quackometer http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/11/john-wesley-and-origins-of-natural.html#comment-9932 Boots Maternity TENS Machines. Do they work? | The Quackometer Sun, 14 Feb 2010 22:12:43 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/11/john-wesley-and-the-origins-of-the-natural-health-movement.html#comment-9932 [...] His biggest selling book was not a religious text, but an 18th Century self-help book promoting natural cures for all illnesses. He believed physicians and apothecaries conspired to keep people ill with worthless and dangerous [...] [...] His biggest selling book was not a religious text, but an 18th Century self-help book promoting natural cures for all illnesses. He believed physicians and apothecaries conspired to keep people ill with worthless and dangerous [...]

]]> By: Richard Rawlins http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/11/john-wesley-and-origins-of-natural.html#comment-9348 Richard Rawlins Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:58:39 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/11/john-wesley-and-the-origins-of-the-natural-health-movement.html#comment-9348 There's only one thing for it.<br /><br />We must carry out the experiment!<br /><br />Now I want all those who wish to volunteer to report their names to Andy Lewis who will allocate the males to one group, divided into two sections. One will F, the other S.<br /><br />The females will also be sectioned, some to receive F and some S.<br /><br />All will be blindfolded.<br /><br />Eee, aint science grand! There's only one thing for it.

We must carry out the experiment!

Now I want all those who wish to volunteer to report their names to Andy Lewis who will allocate the males to one group, divided into two sections. One will F, the other S.

The females will also be sectioned, some to receive F and some S.

All will be blindfolded.

Eee, aint science grand!

]]> By: rajan http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/11/john-wesley-and-origins-of-natural.html#comment-9226 rajan Tue, 19 Jan 2010 11:22:55 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/11/john-wesley-and-the-origins-of-the-natural-health-movement.html#comment-9226 Colin says... <br />"Perhaps the long-s 'ƒ' that is easily confused with 'f' is the culprit."<br />.....but then, why not long 's' used at other places too? <br /><br />Very interesting post. Colin says…
"Perhaps the long-s 'ƒ' that is easily confused with 'f' is the culprit."
…..but then, why not long 's' used at other places too?

Very interesting post.

]]> By: Firesnake http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/11/john-wesley-and-origins-of-natural.html#comment-9083 Firesnake Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:30:16 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/11/john-wesley-and-the-origins-of-the-natural-health-movement.html#comment-9083 "...spoonfuls of water cresses..." seems to indicate what an "F" in this text is.<br /><br />Not top say a skeptical typesetter might have had some fun ;-) "…spoonfuls of water cresses…" seems to indicate what an "F" in this text is.

Not top say a skeptical typesetter might have had some fun ;-)

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/11/john-wesley-and-origins-of-natural.html#comment-9072 Anonymous Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:43:56 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/11/john-wesley-and-the-origins-of-the-natural-health-movement.html#comment-9072 I believe the "f" is an "s" in typefaces of that era. Like in the constution, where "...in congreff" the s's look like f's.<br />billgouldtex@aol.com I believe the "f" is an "s" in typefaces of that era. Like in the constution, where "…in congreff" the s's look like f's.
billgouldtex@aol.com

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/11/john-wesley-and-origins-of-natural.html#comment-9070 Anonymous Tue, 17 Nov 2009 11:27:46 +0000 http://www.quackometer.net/wpblog/2009/11/john-wesley-and-the-origins-of-the-natural-health-movement.html#comment-9070 It seems none of this information is on John Wesley's wikipedia page. It seems none of this information is on John Wesley's wikipedia page.

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